jonnycat
member
Reged: 04/21/05
Posts: 349
Loc: PNW
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I built a nice little SuperCat stove (thanks Jim Wood), and was able to
get a pint of water from 13C to a nice 100C boil with 20mL (0.7 fl.
oz.) of denatured alcohol. Very nice.
I then built a little windscreen (came up to 1/2 the height of the pan), retested it, and got the same very nice results.
But then I added a small breeze from a very small and slow moving fan, and even with the windscreen my water only got to 80C.
So, I'm wondering if this is par for the course with the SuperCat,
or with alky stoves in general? Are there any special tricks or
techniques I should try when using the stove in windy conditions?
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batoncolle
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Reged: 01/22/03
Posts: 315
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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How far (circumference wise) is your windscreen from
the pot when it's in place? 1/2" is about ideal. And how big are your
windscreen holes? Paper hole punch is normally ideal.
You
will notice a difference when it's windy, but I've still been able to
get a boil on 2 cups. If it's really windy, I sometimes add rocks
around the outside of the windscreen to help a little.
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Spock
member
Reged: 01/10/06
Posts: 419
Loc: Central Texas
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Yeah, rocks... also to keep the windscreen fro blowing away.
And
you don't really have to punch a lot of holes... just cut some notches
on the bottom of the windscreen. That's structurally a little better,
makes rolling it up easier and all you really need.
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jasonklass
member
Reged: 08/27/05
Posts: 320
Loc: Denver, Colorado
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I don't punch holes in my windscreens anymore. I use trenches like this: http://www.freewebs.com/jasonklass/ventingoptions.htm
This allows me to control the venting based on the conditions.
-------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/jasonklass/
Is it 2008 yet?
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jonnycat
member
Reged: 04/21/05
Posts: 349
Loc: PNW
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Thanks Baton (and all). The one I made last night
came pretty close to the pot, maybe 1/4" or so. I used roofing
flashing, and didn't realy do a very good job with the holes (my bits
somehow wandered off and I could only find a 5/16" bit). I'll pick up
an oven liner today with a paper punch and do another experiment.
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Jim_Wood
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Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 112
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jonnycat -
A few suggestions for your windscreen based upon my own experiences with stoves in general and the Super Cat in particular:
1. You want, of course, to minimize air turbulence inside the
screen, so as others have noted, it's best for the screen to be no more
than ¼" to ½" away from your pot. Keeping the screen tight also helps
the heat that's reflected from its surface to transfer most efficiently
back to the pot. The tradeoff here is that you'll need to use a screen
material that's thick enough to withstand the heat of the stove when
placed this close (not all materials qualify and some will melt). Most
6" wide aluminum flashing works well, though the polymer that's coated
onto both sides needs to be either burned off or removed with sand
paper and/or steel wool.
2. Naturally, the taller the windscreen, the more effective it will
be. Ideally, a windscreen should rise to near the top edge of the pot
even if the additonal height adds an ounce or so to the screen weight.
3. As Jason notes, you don't necessarily need to punch ventilation
holes if you use a trench. If you use the screen on a non-trenchable
surface (like a picnic table or rock) then alternatively, you can lift
the bottom edge of the screen slightly with pebbles or small pieces of
wood. It's usually best to lift just the rear side of the screen and
face the front (unlifted) side into the wind.
4. If you do make holes, they don't need to completely encircle the
screen. Instead, you can usually get by with punching them only about
halfway around, facing the unpunched side into the wind. Also,
ventilation holes should be at least about ¼" in diameter. Smaller
holes, even if there are lots of them, will often restrict air flow and
starve the stove for oxygen.
5. Keep the screen cutout for your pot's handles (if it has them)
as small as possible. If you use multiple pots of different sizes, then
you may need to build a custom screen for each.
6. To further minimize air turbulence inside the screen, I use a
stand with the Super Cat that elevates the bottom of the stove so it's
that it's about 1½" above ground level and out of the direct line of
fire from wind that may enter the ventilation holes. Pictures of this
new stand, which weighs about ½ oz and is made from one 3 oz and one
5.5 oz (or 6 oz) pet food can, are shown below. There are, by the way,
lots of other advantages to using a stand of this design. A full
description is forthcoming in an update to the original Super Cat
article.
Even with the best screen construction, high winds can still
disrupt cooking with the Super Cat or any other stove. In REALLY windy
environments, an aluminum windscreen used in conjunction with a fabric
windscreen (like the KiteScreen when rigged with a top panel), can virtually eliminate turbulence.
Jim Wood.
Photo of stand alone shows docking socket on top:
Photo of stand with Super Cat plugged into docking socket:
-------------------- Visit jwbasecamp.com. An Internet stop for wilderness travelers.
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jonnycat
member
Reged: 04/21/05
Posts: 349
Loc: PNW
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Awesome, thank you so much for that, Jim. I made a taller windscreen
(came up to the top of the pot), and only put 10 holes in one side; it
ended up doing a _lot_better than my shorty with the too many holes. I
might even try one like Jason's without any holes and just make a few
trenches.
The kite screen is a fantastic idea also, and since I've got fabric
right now I'm going to bring one along. Also I like the docking stand;
keeping the stove away from the vent holes in the windscreen should be
effective, as well as making it more stable to boot.
I was worried about this stove working in the wind, but I'm a lot more confident now that I've got tricks for blocking wind.
Thanks a ton.
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jasonklass
member
Reged: 08/27/05
Posts: 320
Loc: Denver, Colorado
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That's great advice Jim. BTW I like the new Supercat stand. What does it weigh?
-------------------- http://www.freewebs.com/jasonklass/
Is it 2008 yet?
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Jim_Wood
member
Reged: 04/10/04
Posts: 112
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Jason -
This new stand weighs about ½ oz. The docking socket is constructed as described in this article
and is attached to the base using three aluminum pop rivets. I've also
made versions of the socket that are attached using small brass screws
from Home Depot.
Not to hijack this thread, but this is probably a good opportunity to note the other advantages of this new design:
1. The stand creates a wider base with fewer ground contact points,
so the stove is a lot more stable with this stand than when it's used
alone.
2. On highly vegetated or uneven ground, the stove can be further
stabilized by staking it to the ground. I often insert a pair of slim
tent stakes (I use titanium micro hook stakes at ~0.2 oz each) through
the two holes in the base of the stand, then push them into the ground.
This arrangement virtually eliminates any possibility of the stove
tipping or blowing over. Without the stand, it's difficult to find a
way to secure the stove using stakes. Hanging the hook ends over the
top edge of the stove, for example, doesn't work since the combustion
chamber is no longer sealed and the stove won't pressurize properly.
3. The docking socket feature allows different stoves to be used
with the same stand since there's no permanent connection required
between the stove and stand. The socket is tight enough, however, to
hold the stove very securely. Removal of the stove from the stand is
usually best done with a twisting motion.
4. The stand protects the bottom of the stove from damage. If the
stove alone, for example, is placed on a gravel surface, the weight of
a pot filled with water can sometimes push the bottom's soft aluminum
into the sharp edges of stones, causing dents and possibly even
punctures. The stand eliminates this hazard.
5. The airspace trapped under the stand base serves to insulate the
stove from cold ground. Doing so solves pretty much eliminates the
conductive heat losses to the ground that often ruin the performance of
other alcohol stoves when used in cold weather. For use at really low
temps, it's also possible to fill the base with fiberglass insulation
for even better performance.
6. This same airspace also protects the surface under the Super Cat
from the heat that's produced by the stove. I can now use the stove
directly on my workbench without having to worry about cooking the
surface. Also great for protecting the vegetation under the stove when
used on the trail.
7. The base allows the effective use of the "snuffer cup" that's described in the original Super Cat article.
The snuffer cup seals very well against the uniform surface of the
base, and permits the stove to be easily and reliably extinguished at
will. Great for saving fuel and also a significant safety feature. I
now use a snuffer cup with a small wooden knob on top for easy
handling. Well worth the extra ½ oz of weight, IMO.
8. And finally, the top of the stand base can serve as a priming
pan for the stove. Adding a few drops of alcohol primer to the base
just outside the wall of the stove helps the stove come up to operating
temperature faster and also makes it easier to light the stove
(especially in cold weather). Now, rather than having to reach over top
edge of the stove with your match or lighter to ignite the alcohol
fuel, it's possible to simply light the primer outside the stove (the
flame quickly spreads inside). The design of the base can's bottom is
also perfect since the outer ridge keeps the priming fuel from spilling
over the edges.
Jim.
Note: Photos below repeated from earlier post for convenience.
Photo of stand alone shows docking socket on top:
Photo of stand with Super Cat plugged into docking socket:
-------------------- Visit jwbasecamp.com. An Internet stop for wilderness travelers.
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